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So, a mod post on spoilersforncis for a 'spoiler' for NCIS has epic fail. At the end of the post regarding something about TIVA (Tony/Ziva) and a spoiler, the mod said:

Oh, and if you don't like Tony/Ziva, do not comment on this post, we get it, you hate it, we're tired of the same argument.

Had that not been said, or if just a general "be courteous to the Tony/Ziva shippers when commenting" remark had been made, I never would have commented on the post. But with what was said above, I felt a need to comment, because that just irked the heck out me.

Note, the spoilers on this comm are not behind a cut, so you will see the spoilers if you go to the comm. My comment below does not contain any spoilers.

What I Commented With...

I'm going to say my bit before I de-watch this comm and find my spoiler fix elsewhere...

I'm not against Tony/Ziva. I'm against relationships between the main characters in general. If the world suddenly changed overnight and seeing male/male intimate relationships on screen was all the rage, I would not want to watch Gibbs/DiNozzo, DiNozzo/McGee or any other combination of relationships I like to read in fanfic.

I have a thing for Tony/Abby. I wouldn't want to see it onscreen all the time. The way the show handles the McGee/Abby kind-of relationship works for me. Abby isn't on the field team for one. When they were dating, it was not onscreen, we just got snippets from both parties.

Gibbs has a good rule in Rule #12, relationships between agents never work out. Just change agents to main characters in a TV series that is not based on intimate/sexual relationships and you have my opinion on any type of relationships on shows like NCIS. I watch the show for the case solving and the team interaction, let me repeat that, the TEAM interaction (and the dead petty officers).

Relationships on this show that worked (even if I didn't particularly like some of them) were Gibbs/Hollis, Tony/Jeanne, McGee/Abby, Jimmy/Lee and even Ducky/The Chick from SGA and even (in certain aspects because the France flashbacks did get a little trying)... Gibbs/Jenny.

In all those relationships, the "relationship" was not overpowering on the show, detracting from the dead petty officers. Plus, the main characters on the field team were with non-field team people.

Now... I love sexual tension on a show. Will they or won't they. Once they have, well, it's all down hill from there. There's no tension and the tension of watching goes away and leaves me feeling kind of blah. That's why, even though I don't slash predominately in other fandoms, I like the Gibbs/DiNozzo byplay. I can see them in a family type scenario (father/son, brothers), as strong friends / co-workers and as actual or potential lovers from the way their characters interact. They give me just enough in some place and leave me wanting in others and THAT keeps me hooked on them interacting in any given manner.

If Gibbs actually sits Tony down on the show and tells his life story and then hugs the man, I think I would be just as turned off of them as I am of Tony/Ziva. Or, if Hollis had been a rogue CID agent and Tony shot her trying to save himself and Gibbs pummeled an injured Tony to the ground for it... I'd be the first to sign Gibbs' death certificate. It doesn't matter who was in the scenario, it just doesn't work to build a relationship that will function and be something great to watch on screen.

All that said, I think TIVA fans should be wary of "spoilers" like this. It's hype. It's made to get people so hyped up they tune in right away to see what they want to see. He's playing right into your emotions, knowing there are people out there that want to see Tony and Ziva in bed together without being undercover. Don't take what he said literally, because I don't think it will happen the way you think it will happen.

Now that I've said my piece on relationships in general on NCIS, I plan to de-watch this comm. Censorship of comments in a community that is for all NCIS fans is not cool. A general rule about being courteous to people who have different tastes from your own is one thing, but saying "You don't like Tony/Ziva, do not comment on this post," is completely poor modmanship for a general comm.

You're doing to non-Tony/Ziva fans what you don't want done to yourself and others who like it. You basically told us that you don't like our opinions and that is just hypocritical.

Brought to you by an NCIS fan who doesn't like Tony/Ziva onscreen, but also doesn't like any relationships between the main characters onscreen. Save the relationships for the fanfic and give us our dead petty officers back.

Now, I never really get that ranty. I usually just keep quiet with my opinion or share my opinion with like minded people. It's rare for me to really go off in regards to something, so this really was not the proper way for a mod to put that request.

I de-watched the comm and will get my NCIS spoiler fix elsewhere.

ETA the 2nd: Apparently the original post has been deleted and the mod left the comm. Posts like that shouldn't be swept away. I can see turning off commenting to keep it from escalating more, but leave the original post and all its comments in tack. It's called owning up to what you said/started. Just last week, I owned up to a mistake at work that I didn't make but I was the one responsible for who did the work and making sure the work was done correctly. I sent an email to my boss with the outline of what happened and who did what and took responsibility for my error in not catching an error someone else made. I didn't sweep it under the rug or try to blame the person who did the work incorrectly.

::sigh:: I will be posting a set of icons tonight! SQUEE! And possibly some crack!fic to go with the icon. :-)

ETA: A new icon has been inspired. It's up for grabs, just credit me. :-)


( 26 Campfires — Leave a Comment )
Aug. 13th, 2009 04:59 am (UTC)
I think your point about SB trying to rile fans up is the main issue here. He's KNOWN for saying all sorts of things that don't wind up coming to mean anything. Remember the "Legends" reveal that was supposed to answer the question plaguing NCIS fans since the first episode?

This whole spoiler-fail thing is amazing

p.s. the chick from SGA was Jordan
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:24 am (UTC)
I've seen fail in other fandoms, but rarely for NCIS. This is something else...

And thanks for the PS. I failed on her name in both shows. I deserve a Gibbs slap for that one.
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:27 am (UTC)
She was Elizabeth Weir on SGA.

NCIS is usually (on LJ anyway) pretty forgiving a fandom. I always follow and participate in nakeisha's episode discussions, even though she is an AVID Ducky/Gibbs shipper and that's a pairing I can't see AT ALL. But we manage reasonable discussions. Why can't the Tiva people be similarly open minded?
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:42 am (UTC)
nakeisha is awesome when it comes to discussion, even with her strange pairing that I'm not a fan of. I've even read a few of her fics with a Tony/Ziva bent to them.

*head slap* Elizabeth Weir.... Maybe I need to go to bed. :-)
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:44 am (UTC)
some days the brain just won't fire. Don't be too harsh for it.

I wish I could like Ziva, but as a character nearly everything about her rubs me the wrong way
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:01 am (UTC)
::clapping:: Oh, well said, well said indeed. I don't think I would have been half as articulate. I so agree with you. Absolutely inappropriate actions on the part of a mod. Just rename the comm Tiva spoilers why don't you?

(and I'm really sick of the Tiva squee).
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:27 am (UTC)
You can squee about TIVA in the negative all you want here. :-)

They definitely crossed the line in regards to being a mod for a general comm. Add that remark not been there, I never would have commented.
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:24 am (UTC)
I'm with you about all the hype before the series starts. They always have some kind of hook like that! (not that it doesn't work - but it does get aggravating)
I am or at least started out being a Tiva shipper (wow, I have never called myself a shipper before...) but after being in this fandom for so long I realize it doesn't really matter. I just love the characters and how all the fans see different things in different comments and it EXPLODES into awesome (that makes sense right?).
Anyway I agree with you. I do love Tiva (but I think I may love Tibbs or Gabby more but dont tell) but that comment the mod made was tactless.
Good for you for making your opinion known. Watch out world: Kayla Shay is ready to rant!
I thought it was very well thought out and precise. Kudos to you.
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:35 am (UTC)

I was never a shipper in any fandom before NCIS. I like reading certain pairings, but since I was mainly a crossover fiend before NCIS, my ships could never be canon, so I just didn't consider myself a shipper.

With NCIS, I have too many ships. I love Tibbs and Tabby and GAT. I also adore McNozzo and many other weird and odd pairings and connections. I've even read Tony/Ziva stuff. But reading it in fanfic is one thing from seeing it on screen.

I don't watch the show for ships. I watch for the team ship. Seeing how they interact and play off each other. When the ships get thrown in on screen it throws of the groove of all the characters.

But all that said... The mod was definitely in the wrong and it is being made known by many.
(Deleted comment)
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:44 am (UTC)

And in this case, I think it went beyond who is and who isn't a TIVA shipper and into something else entirely...

Definitely epic fail on their part.
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:43 am (UTC)
I think you made your point very well...
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:55 am (UTC)
I leave the computer for a couple of hours, and KABOOM. Instant backlash and explosion. It's fascinating, LOL!

This was just so many kinds of wrong. I was at a loss for words, really. Since when is it okay to tell a group of people to not post in a particular thread? I mean really. And the spoiler itself? I think it's a load of hot air.

By the way - your icon? EPIC WIN. And you even crocheted it on a pillow! YES. *loves you dearly*
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:58 am (UTC)
OOO... I've been wanting a good facepalm icon... *stares intriguingly at yours*

I'm in the process of making a pillow icon series. :-) I'm inspired now.

And I have a crackfic idea in the works now too... Some good can come out of the KABOOM.

I agree completely on the spoiler itself.

And yes, I crocheted that all by myself (with a free font found via Google).
Aug. 13th, 2009 06:16 am (UTC)
It's going to be an epic series! *can't wait to see*

Can't wait for that crack!fic too... *shifty*

Isn't Google a wondrous thing?

(btw - feel free the steal the icon. I made it ages ago, and it has been helpful in expressing my displeasure!)
Aug. 14th, 2009 09:54 am (UTC)
*ganks Tony facepalm* ;D
Aug. 13th, 2009 05:55 am (UTC)
I am not in the fandom at all and have only seen a handful of episodes because of a marathon. This was extremely well said, respectful while still being blunt and offering a criticism.
Aug. 13th, 2009 06:00 am (UTC)
Thanks. In general, NCIS is such a calm fandom and this is one of the first times I've seen a major blow up like this in the fandom.
Aug. 13th, 2009 06:13 am (UTC)
Go you!

I'm not really in NCIS fandom, but stuff like that is not right from a mod. I agree with your analysis too. I don't ship in NCIS, not even in fic, for pretty much all the reason you put here.

Alos, 20 bucks you're dead on about the plot twist being hype.
Aug. 13th, 2009 06:16 am (UTC)

I ship and don't ship and I respect those who do ship, even the Ducky/Gibbs and Tony/Ziva shippers. But I don't ship for the onscreen action. I like my ships in fic only. :-)

The "plot twist" is likely to be like the one he gave for the two part LA spin-off eps. Supposedly we were supposed to learn something that has been a mystery since the first episode.... if we learned it, I and everyone else missed it.

The mod definitely failed in this case.
Aug. 13th, 2009 12:49 pm (UTC)
Well said, and avid a Gibbs/DiNozzo fan though I am, yes, I like it best the way they have it now.

And I liked the show best when it was a case a week and no complex shenanigans dragging on endlessly with many unresolved loose ends too ::sigh::
Aug. 13th, 2009 04:22 pm (UTC)

I too liked it back in the days of the dead petty officers. An occasional story line like the Ari one worked perfectly, but what they are doing now has dragged it out too long and too far.
Aug. 13th, 2009 12:51 pm (UTC)
Oh dear, the whole post was deleted, which makes it SO MUCH WORSE. And also a few of the people when and left personal posts on tejas's post about it in her own LJ. Way to be as unclassy as possible, people
Aug. 13th, 2009 04:19 pm (UTC)

I dislike it when people delete a whole post on something like this. They could turn further commenting off, but leave the post. Makes me wish I had subscribed to the post so I could see how it went after I went to bed.

Aug. 13th, 2009 04:24 pm (UTC)
oh, yeah, that would have been interesting. It had mostly died down my 1 am-ish when I went to bed and the next post was 3 something (the first time the mods were back on, I think) but I don't know what happened inbetween.

I really didn't like the snarky tone to the announcement post about the Tiva comm either. *sigh*
Aug. 14th, 2009 10:05 am (UTC)
Rock on, Kayla!
I don't understand ship warmongers. I just can't wrap my head around the "my ___ is okay, but yours isn't" mentality. And that comment is inexcusable from a mod.

It's things like this that make me glad I don't stray far from the NFA with their great mods and moderate fans. *clings to NFA*
Jan. 5th, 2012 09:40 pm (UTC)
Well said. When it comes to cannon the only ship I support is McAbby, and only if it's mostly offscreen the way it was before.

I'm lucky enough to not have come up against a lot of rabid Tiva, or any other ship, fans so far. A bit of drama here and there, but nothing extensive.

Also want to say, I applaude your enduring faithfulness to the dead petty officers. They need love too ;-)
( 26 Campfires — Leave a Comment )

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